I wanted to start a thread on Patriotism. Paul Pace has brought up that his allegiance is to God and not to America. I can agree with that in a worst-case scenario sort of way, but America's not there yet. That has caused me to think about why I love America. I suppose that there are some who are patriotic out of a reflexive form of nationalism. It's not easy these days to understand what makes America special amongst all the countries of the world. We are constantly bombarded by voices in the media and society that want to blame America for all the ills of the world. They say we are hated by the world, yet the world's citizens are beating, and swimming a path to our door so they can partake of the blessings of liberty.
Is America perfect? No. Are there excesses in American society? Definitely. Then why do I love America so much?
After much thought I realize that I love America, because it's ideals are consistent with God's character!!!!! When I pledge allegiance to the Flag, I pledge allegiance to the ideal of a nation being united under God, with liberty, and justice for all. These ideals make America special.
One of the definitions of the word "constitution" means: the substance of which something is made. I love the substance from which America is made. Freedom of Religion. Freedom of Speech. Freedom of the Press. The Right to Bear Arms (a check and balance against tyrannical government). Equal rights and protection under the law regardless of race, class, gender etc.... These ideals make me proud to be an American because they are the application on earth of things that were born in the mind of God in Heaven.
The times that I feel frustrated as an American are always the times that we fail to live up to these ideals. They are the times that people try to railroad the process and impose different values on American society; truly "unconstitutional" agendas: oppressive taxes, equal outcome-based laws, thought-crime legislation, abortion, property and income redistribution-type policies. All of those things are unconstitutional and therefore inconsistent with my Christian Faith. Patriotism and Faith not only intersect in the founding principles of America, but my Faith demands that I support these ideals for they bring some of the culture of heaven to the earth.
4 comments:
I have a few questions, "Is there a difference between Jeffersonian Deism and following Jesus?"
Is there a difference between "under God" and "In Christ"?
"Patriotism and Faith intersect?"
So, if I fight in a war to secure freedom for the U.S., and am killed in the process, where does that leave me in the kingdom of God? Do I then get a special position? Because the police officers I worked with thought that way. That if they worked 25 years helping people; they were Christians, doing the "will of God". This is what they believed because of Constantine, not Christ. Why do I need to be Christian, why not a "good patriot", it almost seems better to be a "patriot," because I am justified to kill whoever comes at me with force?
If America represented God's character, then it would represent the EXACT character of Jesus, if it does, then I have nothing else to say and I will stop talking. :)
Remember, the Civil Rights Act was 1964, forty years ago, not that long. That was something good the U.S. had done. The way we become "good citizens" is pledging allegiance to the true Lord, Jesus, then it becomes easier for me to see the difference between God and the state. We make Jesus, Lord of my life, but not Lord of all creation. God absolutely wants us to live in peace, even with the state, I do not secure peace through violence, but trusting in God who took the violence into his own flesh.
Also, not everyone has the same experience in the U.S. as you and I, nor the same opportunities. Why not let someone else have those opportunities, we might be surprised by what they do?
I don't want to maintain the same power, which gives me the ability to do whatever I want in the name of American Freedom, because I am not free, but a slave of Christ, that does mean something.
I want to participate with God's reconciliation of humanity with each other and himself. That means, whites with blacks, whites with Latino's, blacks with Latino's. We run a basketball league in Pasadena, with about 60% African-American players, 20% white, 20% Latino/Asian. The money goes to Breath of Heaven Childrens Village in Zambia, Africa. Our organization is called Hope Sports, and the person who started the league is in Nairobi, Kenya right now at another orphanage.
I think that your ideals of America are true as long as you are the "right person". I believe in personal choices, but I balance that with not being heretical in what I believe. I can not be too hard on people who make "evil" choices, because I have made so many in my life and God still accepts me,blesses me, loves me.
(Pelagius/Augustine) debate was about "personal choice overagainst God's all encompassing grace, i.e. The Arian Controversy.
Word!
I did not say that I love God because I love America, but that I love America because I love God, who He is, and how the American Ideals are the embodiment of heavenly values......liberty, justice, freedom etc. Of course America's constant struggle is to become a society that fully embodies those founding ideals. We fall way short now, but that is the challenge before the nation.
I truly believe that the only hope of America ever getting near it's founding ideals again is by the Lord visiting America with tremendous life-changing revival. I don't believe that better laws or even better leaders will do it. Only a massive cultural change of heart will do. That can only happen by massive amounts of individuals all making the same choice......to follow Jesus!!!
I was curious about something. I think you know from our conversations what I envision as good American Government, but what would your ideal American Government look like? Please elaborate especially on the structures, systems, policies, and laws. What would your tax policy be? What would your foreign policy be? What would the role of the military be? Would there be publicly funded education, health care, welfare etc., and if so how would they work? I'm very interested so write back soon.
-Paul
Hey Paul, first I want to say that I don't have a problem with our structure of government per se, but I do have a huge problem with saying that it embodies heavenly ideals. There are other systems of government which are also considered "good". I simply think that our government was never intended to represent the people, it was intended to procure for rich, white, European fella's a structure of government where they could get a lot of land, preferably cheaply, and extract resources in order to get wealthy. Someone always suffers when that is the intent of the government, i.e slaves, Native Americans, Latin Americans. Thomas Jefferson did the best that he could and was an absolute genius, but he still believed that only through violence can we secure freedom. I find it hard to follow that lead. The Church has to embody the message of Christ, not Jefferson. If I embody Jefferson's ideals, then I have every right to pursue the American Dream, which will in the end cost me my life, because it seduces us, then destroys us.
I personally like small government, because overall I don't have that much interaction with the government. I do believe that Christians in the U.S. have bought hook, line, and sinker into the idea that the U.S. is a Christian Nation, therefore, their churches do not participate in what God is doing, but rely upon our tax system for the means by which to provide money for the poor. I believe that Constantinian Christianity also contributed to the Holocaust.
Do I think that overnight that should change, "NO!" because there are people who would suffer and physically die if that happened. We as Christians though absolutely need to go beyond our suburbs, our segregation, our easy-lifestyle to embody the message of the good news, which is always proclaimed to the poor.
Foreign Policy? We should have limited. We should not globalize where countries do not want us to globalize, we should ask countries for Oil and if they don't give it to us, then we find altnernative ways to live, which may mean starting to know our neighbors and relying upon them more. The U.S. hit its Oil peak in the late '70's, the world will hit its peak in the next ten to fifteen years, it's a Natural Resource, it can't last forever. (according to James Kunstler; The End of Suburbia)
The U.S. is scared right now, driven by fear, and that always has horrible ramifications. We have a Super Power mindset, and it is probably because of our deep ignorance of history, because if we studied nations we would understand that the U.S. will not be a Super Power in another fifty years; it is just the way it goes, in the cycle of nation-states.
I personally live a life of simplicity; we have one car, a small house, limited bills, people in our community cook for one another once a week, which helps with groceries, and we attend community meetings in the Greater Pasadena area so we can find ways to influence change in our community.
That to me is government. Therefore, I don't buy what the U.S. government is selling, i.e. consumerism. When 9/11 happened, President Bush's first statement was, "The U.S. is open for business." Are you kidding? The last thing people needed to do at that moment was shop. The U.S. is entrenched in the "Invisible Empire", of MNC's and Banks. Our globalized market system is in need of the countries where we profit the most, i.e. China. Why would President Bush have the Dictator of China to the White House? What about North Korea, why don't we invite him? Because the U.S. has no major corporations in N. Korea, so they are unimportant to us.
I love the U.S., and think that our wealth has contributed to much good, but it will also eventually be our downfall, because history shows us that fact. At least we have a nation which will never fade away, no matter what country I live in.
Sorry so long. Your a good brother. Paul
There are a number of things that I agree with you on, but maybe for different reasons. It sounds like we both are for: self-government over big government, a Christian Church that is actively helping others outside of the walls of the building, Christians need to help the poor instead of relying on gov't programs to do what we're supposed to, Christians should live in community with other believers and non-believers, Christians should live simply so others can simply live, the wealth of the U.S. could very well blind it to it's desperate need for God. (disclaimer: I'm not saying that wealth is bad, just that it has the propensity to cause people to value things that really aren't important.)
Now, I do differ with you on several points as well. I still maintain that the founding principles of the U.S. do embody heavenly ideals. Freedom, liberty, and justice were nowhere to be found on the planet at the time of the American Revolution. The idea in the Declaration that we are created equal and endowed by our Creator with inalienable rights was historic in it's implication. Remember that slavery was not only in America. It was everywhere for thousands of years. It began to fall across the globe starting in America and England, and interestingly it was the powerful sermons of the Great Awakening and Welsh Revivals that began pricking people's hearts to the sin of slavery.
I never said that America embodies these heavenly principles, but that the founding principles do. I said that America's struggle is to embody these great principles. Your take on the founding fathers setting up our system of government to be "a european white fella's get rich quick scheme" needs some evidence to back it up. Those that did, did it in opposition to the founding principles not because of the founding principles. The system that was set up leveled the playing field tremendously and enabled people to break out of their class. The principle of inalienable rights broke the back of slavery and won women the right to vote. These opportunities were nowhere on the planet. People could finally begin to live out the dreams that God placed in their hearts. In Communist China you still need gov't permission to move from one region to another.
Let me know if I understood our agreements and differences accurately. BLOG ON!!!!!!
-Paul
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