What the world needs now is.................. How does that song go? Well, instead of love you've got a popular kids show led by an 11 year old and a Jihadist Bumble Bee. Great!!!!! Never mind the fact of the historical right of the Jews to inhabit Israel. Never mind the fact that there is no such thing as a "palestinian people". There never was an official Arab-run country called Palestine. Never Mind the fact that it was controlled by Britain before Israel came, not the Arabs. Never mind the fact that God gave it to the Jewish people. They suddenly maintain this lie that it's their land, and this kid wants the Jews out. Go to this link and see the article about this tool of evil propaganda. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293284,00.html
-Paul
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Are there people who call themselves Palestinians?
All of the folks in Israel that don't want it to be a Jewish state claim that they are "palestinians". They claim that the land is rightfully theirs because they inhabited it before Israel became a Jewish state. Of course before Israel got it's statehood given to them legitimately by the Balfour Declaration, there were many Jews also living in the land. At that time it was under British rule, and the Arabs living there weren't claiming their "Palestinian Heritage". They were very content being Arabs in a British ruled country.
However, when Israel came under Jewish rule all of a sudden they claimed this fictitious historical right. It's the same old story "blame the Jews". That's why the Arab countries attacked in 1967, and miraculously the Jews defeated them.
-Paul
I am attempting to understand this, so bear with me. Were the people living in the land, Arabs, or Muslims? Because I am confused as to how a Muslim could live under rule of another nation, since this would go against the teachings of the Koran.
They are Arab Muslims. Muslims live in lots of different countries that are not under Islamic rule. There are Muslims in France, England, the U.S. etc...... And yes, there are people who call themselves "Palestinians". That's where the organization the P.L.O. came from......Palestinian Liberation Organization. Did you really not know these things or are you leading to a different perspective on this?
-Paul
My first question was facetious of course,:) but my second question has to do with a clarification of what you said about Arabs living under British rule, and how the Arab-Muslims could live peacefully under another nation?
Do you think then it is the Jewish people which made the hatred arise, the Jewish people taking over the land, the land itself, or a combination of all three?
I of course have my own thoughts, but I would like to know what you think. Jay and I have discussed this issue at length, so I simply want to know what your opinion about the land, Israel, God's covenant with the Jewish people, dispensationalism, etc? I know there is a lot in those four things I just asked. I believe that how we view the present nation of Israel also shapes to varying degrees what we believe about the Mission of God in the earth, as well as God's covenant with creation.
Talk soon.
I would like to answer all your questions about Israel, and it certainly would be an interesting discussion, but first I must say that I don't like to waste my time with "facetious" questions. The discussions we've been having have been open, honest, and intelligent. So I think it is only right that you answer the original post first. How do you respond to the Nahoul the Jihadist Bumble Bee situation?
-Paul
Paul (Pace),
There were a couple million people living in the geographical area known as Palstine in the 1940s. It got it's name "Palestine" from the Romans who were trying to shame the Jews. About 600,000 Jews in the 1940s were land owners in Jerusalem. The remaining population in Gaza were Egyptians, like Arafat and and in the West Bank, they were Jordanians. In 1948, there was no Palestinian president and there was no Palestinian Army. This all started as a movement in the 1970s when Arafat had his leadership go to a New York and consult with a PR firm that established the Palestinian campaign. After all, at the 1920 World's Fair, the Palestinian movement was a bunch of Jews fighting for a new homeland.
-Jeremy
Hey Paul, first, "facetious" may have been the wrong word, "rhetorical" would probably be better. :)
In response to the original post, I was wondering how you could say that there is no such thing as a "Palestinian people", if people call themselves Palestinians, no matter how the term derived, it exists.
Judaism didn't develop until the Exile in Babylon, but no one would question that Jews are a "historical people group", who have a right to use the term, "Jewish."
The other statement, "God gave it to the Jewish people." The real culprits of evil exhibited against the Jews were the Romans, so in all actuality the nation of Italy should be a "target", as well as Germany. I find that the Muslims have not done as horrible things as other people groups towards the Jewish people in general, but yet, it seems to loom large in our politics.
I am not saying that I think it is not a huge problem, because it is.
I think that when we talk about these issues, we don't go back far enough. When you say, "God gave it to the Jewish people", that promise was given thousands of years ago, but how do you explain the Exile to Babylon, the eventual return to the land, but then occupation by Persian, Greece, and Rome?
How does the ministry of Jesus fit into the context of Israel's, "return from exile, forgiveness of sins, etc...?"
We focus very much on the present day, but what looms in our psyche are the horrific consequences of not following Jesus, when he brings reconciliation and healing to all persons.
Do the Jews have a right to live in the land? Of course for the reason that "the Earth is the Lord's", and he absolutely wants humans to live peacefully. The peace I believe comes through suffering and pain, not through military power. "We can fool ourselves for a while, but in the end, force will recreate all into violent people". (Miroslav Volf)
I believe the promises of God are "irrevocable", which includes nations, and includes Israel as a people. The issue is finding out how this is possible, without killing other human beings in the process.
Talk soon.
One last thing, I think that we need to take the words of Jesus seriously when it comes to what he is saying to the nation. (Matthew 5-6)
We need to understand the inner logic of Jesus. As the Logos, the Word made flesh, Jesus was once again bringing new creation to those who followed him. Jesus was bringing the mind (logos) back into unity with the flesh. Enmity with God separates the mind and the flesh, but reconciliation and healing unifies it again.
This is not simply existential, inner, personal healing, but the healing of the nations. (Revelation)
We participate with Christ in his reconciliation of the nations.
I'd like to answer what you wrote, but I'm still waiting for your opinion on Nahoul the Jihadist Bumble Bee.
-Paul
In reference to Nahoul the Jihadist Bumble Bee, I strongly disagree with what it stands for. I am intrigued as to why America is mentioned in the article about the T.V. show?
In all actuality, the culture of Palestine, Israel, or the U.S. does not dictate what God does in and with humanity, yet the Jewish people are extremely important, so how do we work towards reconciliation with other nations to fulfill Isaiah's many prophecies?
I think that the idea of martyrdom, should be embraced by Christians, because that may open dialogue with Muslims. Do Muslims know the blessing of Abraham is extended to them also?? Are we telling them this? That is why I can't stand Fox News and MSNBC and most of the other news stations, because people believe what they tell them. They report what they think is important, but they bring it from the perspective of fear, but since we as Christians don't live in fear, this creates tension.
Didn't Yitzak Rabin attempt to make a peace accord with the P.L.O. and was assassinated because of it? Why is it so hard to share land? I ask myself that question in reference to the U.S. Why can't we share land?
The land belongs to no human, it belongs to God, the Torah is very clear about that. "Possessing" and "owning" are two separate things.
In reference to this t.v. show, it reiterates what we already know, Palestinians are very angry towards Israel and the West. The question remains, "What do we as followers of Jesus do?"
Talk soon. Paul
I'm sorry I haven't responded in a few days. It may be a few more. School just started this week and there's a lot going on. Will write again soon.
Paul B.
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